Cain and Lincecum are really starting to throw a lot of pitches if anyone has noticed. Giants fans should be thanking God they don't go to the playoffs since those extra innings and pitches might jus make their arms fall off. I don't get it at all, Giants have no shot at the WS or even the playoffs so why work your two horses into the ground?

Yeah, they really could be the next Wood and Prior, really just being overworked due to lack of talent in the rest of their rotation.

Giants could dominate in about 3 years with a rotaion of Lincecum, Cain, Alderson, Bumgarner and Sosa, but if you take into fact that maybe not all of those three make it in the majors and on top of that lincecum being overworked as well as his high injury rick on top of that....

Yeah, they really just need to be looking at the future at this point, they're a terrible team as it is, but they could have something going down the line, as you said.

Yeah, seriously I've been wondering myself. But hopefully Lincecum will be shut down soon like he was last year.

As for Cain, I'm not particularly worried because he's really strong.

So he's really strong, and HOPEFULLY Lincecum is shut down soon. First off, strength has nothing to do with how often you get hurt, or how badly you get hurt. And that hopefully stuff doesn't really sound so good considering they're using them MORE right now than they were before.

Okay yeah so it doesn't but I'd understand if they don't shut him down because he really isn't the same as a Kerry Wood.

As for Lincecum, well what's wrong with me saying hopefully?? It's not like I can choose whether they shut him down.

Nothing wrong with it necessarily, but you have to recognize that when they're playing him a lot more right now, they probably won't be shutting him down at all. So, in essence, there really is no hopefully about the whole thing in general, it just looks like another Wood and Prior type thing. Those guys were horses for the Cubs because they were dominant young pitchers, and look now. Exactly, they're nothing, their arms fell off, and they suck. I could EASILY see something similar happening in the case at hand.

Don't forget Zito! He'll still be on the books in three years...

Also, I think John Sanchez is better now and will be better than Henry Sosa then.

Sometimes late at night I forget Zito is even a major leaguer.

Barry Zito is so horrific right now that he'd probably end up having an ERA of about 9 in Class A. That's how bad he is. I don't know why he's even pitching anymore. I don't know why he's as bad is he is, considering how well he pitched with the Athletics for years. But anyways, he sucks now, end of story.

After the all star break for the past two years he has started to pick it up a bit...Two of his last four starts have been 7+ shutout inning outings. Maybe if we're lucky he'll bring his ERA down into the 4 range. He started off 0-8 and now he's 7-15 so he's pitched .500 ball for the Giants since then which is pretty solid with that kind of run support.

But yeah, he's terrible.

I heard you guys may trade Cain away this winter. Should be interesting to see what you can get.

I haven't heard that and I really hope that they don't. He has so much talent but I think the Giants poor record when he pitches will make them not get as much in return. He's also only 23.

That would be a damn shame, I honestly think that Cain and Lincecum is a very bright future, but when you take one away, the other is just an Ace with a bunch of Jokers.

(Sorry about that Joker thing, I know it's pretty lame)

Lince-Cain-Alderson-Bumgarner-Sanchez/Tanner

Why mess this up?

http://fantasyloungesports.com/index.php?o...id=204&Itemid=1

There is a neat article about over used pitchers. Cain and Lincecum are both in the top 5.

Well from rumors on misc sites, Rangers could offered Andrus, Laird and Beltre...I'd do it.

Yeah, that's definitely tempting, now that you throw in those players' names.

Yes, it really is.

It'd be worth it possibly considering the huge SP talent the Giants have even w/o Cain and their desperate need for hitters.

Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Alderson in the lead with pitchers like Lowry, Sanchez, Sosa, and the Zito that shows up once in a while as second-tier.

Thats a scary roto, not just for opposing teams, but for Giants fans. I'd be shitting myself all week worried about injuries with those guys since Alderson has a really high injury risk and Lincecum has a big injury risk as well.

I think Giants fans should see it like this -- they're fine with Lincecum pitching 120-130 like he will be doing today because he's pitching like a true pitcher of the past.

He's trying to finish the games that he starts because that's just how a pitcher should be thinking.

If Lincecum gets hurt, it will be unfortunate but I would understand, this is baseball, things like that happen.

You have to take better care of your young pitchers than that. If all managers saw it that way, just what the young pitcher wants, then all managers would have a bunch of young pitchers with busted up arms.

its the natural way of things, you're taught to finish up what you start, not just in pitching

it's true that you do have to take care of their arms but that has been a bit exaggerated as of the past decades. Managers don't wanna take the blame for getting their pitchers arms busted so they have to play it on the safe side

Besides Bruce Bochy used to catch major league pitchers for 9 years. He knows what it's like for pitchers and he's been willing to stretch Cain and Lincecum to 110-120 quite often because they want to. If he was completely against it he would keep them at 100.

If Bruce Bochy knew what he was talking about, his teams would have done much better, but instead... Exactly

As to that whole Finishing what you start, you're right, but if we all had that mindset, and that was ALWAYS the case, then pitchers would be throwing 130 pitches every night, and their arms would eventually fall off. Innings don't matter at all, it's the number of pitches, and once you're throwing 130 pitches every day, you're going to have problems in the future, or are at the very least more likely to be injured. You can't say that the whole mindset thing always works, because it doesn't

Just following up on the Bochy thing. He was a catcher. How does that even factor into a pitcher? Because he catches pitches? What? What does that have to do with anything as far as him knowing how a pitcher's arm works? So he caught them for 9 years, that doesn't make him a pitching expert.

Managers don't have much of an effect on the team's success as the players, and Bochy has not been given any offense pretty much for both the Giants and Padres. He has been given great pitchers and have gotten good results from them.


No one knows a pitcher better than a catcher, maybe not even the pitcher. That's why guys like Jason Varitek have a job still. And while they aren't trainers, I would expect them to know their pitcher's limitations better than any other player or observer.


Plus the fact that Lincecum hasn't lost his effectiveness this late into an "over used" season, makes me think he can handle it like a Halladay or Sabithia can.

Well I think Lincecum should finishing what he started like 5 years from now when the Giants are playing meaningful games. I mean really....a win yesterday for the Giants means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Hell it hurts them more than anything because they get a later draft pick

I love NateFizzle.

But yeah I agree with you jaysdude...it's just I'm not entirely pissed that they're working him because well they know better than fans would know anyways. Just hopefully he's still got it in a couple years when the giants should contend

It will be funny if the Giants are contenders and have a 1 game lead in the WC in mid August, and Lincecum gets injured because of arm troubles and the Giants lose.

Both guys are giants so their body can take the workload and Sabathia legs are often mistaken for tree trunks

It usually presents a more long term problem, nate, which would explain why Bartolo Colon has gone from Ace to nobody. I mean, I'm not saying it will happen for sure or anything, but when you put young players in to a situation where they're throwing 130 pitches every day, that just makes it more likely. There's no disputing that he'll be good next year, and he'll probably be dominant for quite some time, but once he gets into his 30's, we could see his arm fall off early.

And if you think that it's because Varitek knows his pitchers well that he has a job, don't fool yourself. Tek shouldn't be playing, he's a rally killer, but he's the captain, the leader of the Red Sox. He's not particularly great at any one single thing, and is horrific at almost everything offensively. Varitek can't even catch one of his long time starting pitchers, Tim Wakefield. How can you say that Catchers know a pitcher better than anyone, especially in the case of their arm strength?

I really wouldn't worry about it. Yeah there are bad examples of what can happen like Wood and Prior, but there are also guys that come out healthy and productive, who knows which category Linceum and Cain will end up in, but I don't think that the Giants are approaching this the wrong way. They're giving the club a new face in the post-Bonds era, along with having great pitchers in. Keep in mind that we do have great medical technology nowadays.

Some pitchers take it better than others, and the fact is, we shouldn't really even be talking about his arm falling off now, because if it does happen, it'll be in about 7-10 years from now.

And it may also not be because 10 years ago he pitched 130 pitches this one game.

You can't tell until he gets older. Young arms don't just fall off because you're throwing 130 pitches from a young age, they fall off when you get into your 30's.

Honestly, the Giants are fucked up. Not only are they making Lincecum throw a shitload of unneeded pitches, they are also trying to win their games by throwing him out there for so long.

Here's an idea. Why not keep losing so you get better draft picks = better prospects = better chances for your team to win. Why fuck your best pitcher over when you can keep his arm attached until when the games you play actually MATTER.

Cy young award possibility for Lincecum...

he won't because of wins...clemens didn't win with a 1.87 era a few years back.

It's gonna be Webb

Webb will take it...