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Title: Wells out, Snider could be up


TheHugeUnit - July 11, 2008 02:54 AM (GMT)
Wells is out for about 6 weeks, so the Jays are thinking of bringing up Snider.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...l20080710181932

win2day - July 11, 2008 02:56 AM (GMT)
Why?

Their season is pretty much done. Why bring up their hitter from AA and have him struggle? Let the kid hit in AA, then move him to AAA. Jumping these kids from AA creates problems as we saw with Hughes last year, the Mets saw with Gomez, and many others.

If he's a prime talent, let him get used to minor league hitting, and how pitchers adjust to him at different levels. He needs to learn how to make adjustments in the minors so he can make them in the majors where the pitchers are that much better.

hankaaron44 - July 11, 2008 05:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (win2day @ Jul 10 2008, 10:56 PM)
Why?

Their season is pretty much done. Why bring up their hitter from AA and have him struggle? Let the kid hit in AA, then move him to AAA. Jumping these kids from AA creates problems as we saw with Hughes last year, the Mets saw with Gomez, and many others.

If he's a prime talent, let him get used to minor league hitting, and how pitchers adjust to him at different levels. He needs to learn how to make adjustments in the minors so he can make them in the majors where the pitchers are that much better.

It ended up being Kevin Mench by the way but I'll tell you why I supported Snider being called up. Youve already mentioned the negatives in that you may scar him for life but here's why I would disaree:
  1. What do you have to lose? W2D even said it...but my reason is different. J.P. admitted to a scrum of reporters that to expect the Blue Jays to be in the playoffs would be "unlikely." The Rays have lost four straight games but the Blue Jays are still 10 games behind. They are So now that even the GM has given up on the season and the fans have given up even earlier than that, they can't be any worse than they are now (ignore the three game winning streak). They are nine games back of the Wild Card with six teams in between them. If he sucks, he can learn. If he does well, even better. He's not a pitcher who hasn't had much scouting done on him. He's a hitter. Scouts have already got the scoop on him through the minors. It's over. Let the kid hit.
  2. There are less than 86 days left in the season. What does that mean? Well, even if he does end up being in the top 17% of players, he would not become a Super 2. From an economics stand point, that is great news as he would still not be eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2011 season.
  3. In 2007 Snider hit .316 against lefties. This season, the Blue Jays aren't even over .300 against lefties, If you don't want to run him out there everyday, platoon him at DH. Besides, it's a lot cheaper than signing Richie Sexson to murder lefties for you.

Rockshu - July 11, 2008 06:37 PM (GMT)
Or we could let him stay in the minors because he's 20, he's hitting below .270, and he's striking out way too fucking much.

Bloss - July 11, 2008 06:42 PM (GMT)
He doesnt need to stay up forever. Bring him up for a couple weeks and see how he does, It can't really hurt him that much.

win2day - July 11, 2008 07:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (hankaaron44 @ Jul 11 2008, 12:48 PM)
QUOTE (win2day @ Jul 10 2008, 10:56 PM)
Why?

Their season is pretty much done.  Why bring up their hitter from AA and have him struggle?  Let the kid hit in AA, then move him to AAA.  Jumping these kids from AA creates problems as we saw with Hughes last year, the Mets saw with Gomez, and many others.

If he's a prime talent, let him get used to minor league hitting, and how pitchers adjust to him at different levels.  He needs to learn how to make adjustments in the minors so he can make them in the majors where the pitchers are that much better.

It ended up being Kevin Mench by the way but I'll tell you why I supported Snider being called up. Youve already mentioned the negatives in that you may scar him for life but here's why I would disaree:
  1. What do you have to lose? W2D even said it...but my reason is different. J.P. admitted to a scrum of reporters that to expect the Blue Jays to be in the playoffs would be "unlikely." The Rays have lost four straight games but the Blue Jays are still 10 games behind. They are So now that even the GM has given up on the season and the fans have given up even earlier than that, they can't be any worse than they are now (ignore the three game winning streak). They are nine games back of the Wild Card with six teams in between them. If he sucks, he can learn. If he does well, even better. He's not a pitcher who hasn't had much scouting done on him. He's a hitter. Scouts have already got the scoop on him through the minors. It's over. Let the kid hit.
  2. There are less than 86 days left in the season. What does that mean? Well, even if he does end up being in the top 17% of players, he would not become a Super 2. From an economics stand point, that is great news as he would still not be eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2011 season.
  3. In 2007 Snider hit .316 against lefties. This season, the Blue Jays aren't even over .300 against lefties, If you don't want to run him out there everyday, platoon him at DH. Besides, it's a lot cheaper than signing Richie Sexson to murder lefties for you.

And my counter argument (although you should be able to tell by my response, I just didn't want JD to get confused)


1. Pitchers in MLB can make adjustments to hitters better than pitchers at AA can. The pitchers in MLB have better stuff than the pitchers in MLB. This means he comes up here, and the likely chance that he struggles, he'll try to make adjustments to his swing on the fly. No one wants to go back down to the minors and ride buses to ball parks. And those adjustments could cost him in the future, where he doesn't develop as he should.

An example would be his strikeout rate. He may try to be more of a contact hitter and cut down on his swing in the majors, but that may cost him power potential down the road, as he's not developing his swing to take full advantage of his power potential.

And if he starts adjusting back and forth, he can get lost, and be in a lot more trouble.

2. While it won't cost the BlueJays anything, it pretty much won't gain them anything either. He still needs to work on hitting, he still needs to develop. 20 year old phenoms are rare and far in between, and its so because most kids aren't ready to hit MLB pitching by that age.

3. Hitting against lefties for the rest of the year isn't really going to help the BlueJays do anything other than self respect. As you said, they season for all intended purposes is over. So what difference would it make if he's going to help the Jays hit better against lefties?

jaysdude09 - July 11, 2008 08:22 PM (GMT)
No keep him down. He's striking out 30% of the time and with that rate he'll get raped by pitchers. They'll just laugh at him and strikeout him out every AB.

nath87 - July 12, 2008 04:44 PM (GMT)
call me foolish but with the tampa bay devil rays leading the al east, I don't think the season is over yet.

the jays could end up being 48-47 by the end of the all star break.. sure the jays lost Wells but their pitching is still excellent and with a couple more hits the jays can still contend. I v seencazier things happen.

Crushed Optimism - July 12, 2008 05:07 PM (GMT)
I feel bad for the Jays. Even if they field a good team, they still have to beat the Rays, Yankees, and Sox, and that's never ever easy. Especially because the future is the Rays and the Yankees have a pretty good farm too. If they were in the NL West, they'd win every year, haha.

jaysdude09 - July 12, 2008 07:06 PM (GMT)
Our team on paper looks solid, but we just never go out and do it.

Rockshu - July 12, 2008 07:45 PM (GMT)
We're out of it.

hankaaron44 - July 12, 2008 10:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (win2day @ Jul 11 2008, 03:45 PM)
QUOTE (hankaaron44 @ Jul 11 2008, 12:48 PM)
QUOTE (win2day @ Jul 10 2008, 10:56 PM)
Why?

Their season is pretty much done.  Why bring up their hitter from AA and have him struggle?  Let the kid hit in AA, then move him to AAA.   Jumping these kids from AA creates problems as we saw with Hughes last year, the Mets saw with Gomez, and many others.

If he's a prime talent, let him get used to minor league hitting, and how pitchers adjust to him at different levels.  He needs to learn how to make adjustments in the minors so he can make them in the majors where the pitchers are that much better.

It ended up being Kevin Mench by the way but I'll tell you why I supported Snider being called up. Youve already mentioned the negatives in that you may scar him for life but here's why I would disaree:

  1. What do you have to lose? W2D even said it...but my reason is different. J.P. admitted to a scrum of reporters that to expect the Blue Jays to be in the playoffs would be "unlikely." The Rays have lost four straight games but the Blue Jays are still 10 games behind. They are So now that even the GM has given up on the season and the fans have given up even earlier than that, they can't be any worse than they are now (ignore the three game winning streak). They are nine games back of the Wild Card with six teams in between them. If he sucks, he can learn. If he does well, even better. He's not a pitcher who hasn't had much scouting done on him. He's a hitter. Scouts have already got the scoop on him through the minors. It's over. Let the kid hit.

  2. There are less than 86 days left in the season. What does that mean? Well, even if he does end up being in the top 17% of players, he would not become a Super 2. From an economics stand point, that is great news as he would still not be eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2011 season.

  3. In 2007 Snider hit .316 against lefties. This season, the Blue Jays aren't even over .300 against lefties, If you don't want to run him out there everyday, platoon him at DH. Besides, it's a lot cheaper than signing Richie Sexson to murder lefties for you.

And my counter argument (although you should be able to tell by my response, I just didn't want JD to get confused)


1. Pitchers in MLB can make adjustments to hitters better than pitchers at AA can. The pitchers in MLB have better stuff than the pitchers in MLB. This means he comes up here, and the likely chance that he struggles, he'll try to make adjustments to his swing on the fly. No one wants to go back down to the minors and ride buses to ball parks. And those adjustments could cost him in the future, where he doesn't develop as he should.

An example would be his strikeout rate. He may try to be more of a contact hitter and cut down on his swing in the majors, but that may cost him power potential down the road, as he's not developing his swing to take full advantage of his power potential.

And if he starts adjusting back and forth, he can get lost, and be in a lot more trouble.

2. While it won't cost the BlueJays anything, it pretty much won't gain them anything either. He still needs to work on hitting, he still needs to develop. 20 year old phenoms are rare and far in between, and its so because most kids aren't ready to hit MLB pitching by that age.

3. Hitting against lefties for the rest of the year isn't really going to help the BlueJays do anything other than self respect. As you said, they season for all intended purposes is over. So what difference would it make if he's going to help the Jays hit better against lefties?

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but there are players who are ready at that young age to perform in the majors. No one knew until Miguel Cabrera or Albert Pujols (to use two very recent examples) came up that they’d be able to handle the big leagues, and they did. As I said before, the team is likely going nowhere and they could use another outfield bat, so why not? If the adjustment and re-adjustment process (something he’s going to have to go through when he gets to the majors, whenever that is) is going to shatter his confidence and ruin him, better you find that out when he’s 20 than when he’s 23 and you’re actually counting on him.

nath87 - July 14, 2008 02:52 AM (GMT)
lol the yankees were only at .500 last year at the all star break and then theykicked it into high gear.

the jays could do the same thing. even without wells.

just trying to keep the optomism.




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