We're basically 3/5's of the minor league season done, so what teams do you think are in the top 5 for best pitching in the minors?

Its basically starting pitching+future closers. keep potential middle relievers out when assesing each teams' pitching in the minors.

white sox birmingham

1) Rays
2) A's
3) Royals
4) Rangers
5) Orioles

I may be pushing the Royals here

No one beats Melancon when it comes to future closers, so the Yankees have a big edge there. Betances, McAllister, Stevens, Horne, Marquez, Pope, Brackman, O'Brien, Cole(he's going to sign), Vizcaino, Aveces, Garcia, Sanchez, Pendleton, Kontos. Plus if we sign Mitchell, Marshall, Bleich and others. If that doesn't get us at least in the top 5, then the other teams must have future clemens, johnsons, ryans, johans, webbs, youngs, and fords.

All your arms have have just as much probability of flopping as they do succeeding. Actually, there's more of a chance. Most of your good prospects are high ceiling guys like Brackman, Betances, Cole, etc.

Horne, Kontos, and McCallister are the only guys that I like who have a good future ahead of them

Marquez has good stuff but he has like a 5+ FIP in AAA so idk, Ryan Pope is nothing special he's like Ian Kennedy v2....O'brien's solid but lets see he's still hasn't thrown a pitch

Vizcaino has a long ass way to go, I think I'm older than him....Pendleton is 25 in Low A and his stuff is decent probably be a #4 starter or a #5

How good is Aceves? I know hes from Mexico but I haven't heard anything great about him

I love Garcia but he hasn't shown greatness in the minors esp considering hes now 23/24 in high A...


You have a lot of depth, but I assessed each team's pitching based on closeness to reaching the majors+ceiling+how close they are to reaching that ceiling. The O's have Matsuz, Tillman, and Erbe who all could end up being #2 starters in the majors....and the Yankees don't have any of that except for Horne

Brackman has the highest ceiling among all pitchers in the minors, when healthy. Which he should be. TJ is nothing these days, if you manage your pitchers. ACEves as he is called, is not going to be an ace type pitcher, since eh doesn't throw fire. I think he can touch 92. Throws 90-91 if im not mistaken, but he has very good secondary stuff. I guess you can say Kennedy. Marquez isn't kennedy v2 though, he's basically like a Wang. He throws a 93-94 mph sinker with an improved curve or change, im not sure which one I read the article last week. I agree Hroen is a No. 2 starter, but the Yankees have three guys who can be legitimate aces, in Brackman(lets not forgot before the season he had a label as a top 5 ceiling prospect in baseball, when Kershaw, Bruce, Joba and Buchholz, among others were still there. This label was given by anti-Yankee mastermind, devil worshiper seniora Jim Callis), as well as Betances and Heredia.

I fail to see why you passed giving a blurb to Ryan Pope. Power arm with good secondary stuff. Pendleton should still have a high ceiling, TJ broke him but before that he was suppose to be this big uber pitcher.

Give me a few hours and I'll settle this though. I have to step out to go the bank.

lol what I did give a blurb on pope, hes kennedy v2 w/higher velo on his fastball......he should be able to be throwing 93-95 by the time he reaches the majors but his secondary stuff are fringe average. but you guys have some pitching coach in high A or low A or somewhere that teaches people to throw great curves like he did with Hughes I think or Joba....but I forget his name.

so I guess if he can teach him to throw a better curve, he could be something but as he stands he's nothing special but has a good chance to make an improvement.

Pendleton is a future reliever IMO

McGee is having TJ surgery now.

I think Marquez is actually better than Wang in that his secondary pitches are tons better than Wang's. He's just adjusting to AAA right now (and was injured I believe).

Melancon, Cox, Robertson, Sanchez, Patterson, Whelan (injured) form a real good RP core. Kontos could join this group too if the Yankees have too many starters.

Brackman (although I think he maybe converted to RP), Horne, Marquez, Vizcaino, Heredia, McAllister, Betances, and Cole for starters.

Thats a pretty nasty mix of top relievers and starters.


I think the Rays have more upside people who are closer to the majors in Price, Davis, and McGee, with Hellickson doing great this year, but the Yankees have a ton of high ceiling prospects pitching wise.

If I had to rank them, I probably would have ranked the Rays 1, and Yankees 2.

Emailed Manuel today, asking him to put these teams, Royals, Rangers Yankees and O's in order of who has the best pitching in the minors. This is the email I go back.

"Yankees probably entered the season at the top of that list. I'd go NYY, TEX, BLT and KCR there. The Royals are the team that doesn't belong in the discussion, even after this year's draft, though I liked their draft class."

meh I just skim your posts man to be honest. Pope already throws 94, so its not like he'll jump to 88-95 by the time he goes to the majos. Nardi is the master of pitching coaches, he is the pitching coordinator, os he is all over the place. He can teach your mom to throw a hammer curve or a BM in your pants changeup.

Patterson is nothing man.

I disagree I like wangs secondary stuff a lot. The only problem with it he doesn't use it by three time a game.

No fucking way they make Brackman a RP, no way.

Heredia has a monster ceiling but he's still too young and far from the majors. Much of your starters are just like Heredia and you guys in terms of ceiling are probably #1 in baseball but when you assess closest to the majors/ceiling/chance of reaching ceiling, they are not up there.

That's why the A's get the nod at 2nd for me because they have a tonne of guys in the high minors who have proven themselves and have a chance to be atleast #3's with Cahill who I think is Halladay v2 or Gallardo v2.

Though I question some of their ceilings for some of the pitchers, but I like em

Patterson is just someone who is closer the majors. I think he'd be around the same as Veras.

Wang doesn't have great secondary stuff. Marquez has a power curve almost like Hughes, and a nasty changeup. No one wonders why Wang doesn't K people, but people wonder all the time why Marquez's K numbers aren't higher.


Ok, that one is a stretch, but think about it.


He only has 2 pitches right now. A fastball and a curve, and his curve was inconsistant to begin with. He has an MLB contract. He was a project to begin with since his mechanics need to be reworked. His changeup was never all that good. He's never pitched more thank 80 innings in a season I believe. He lost one year to TJ. He'll probably take most of next year to be fully right. His 2 pitches will translate well into the bullpen, and they don't have to worry about him getting up his IP count.

Last year in college, he pitches 78 IP,
So next year on the 30 IP incline, he can go up to 108
138 the year after
168 the year after.

So for basically 3 years he won't be able to have a complete year, and this is the best case scenario with him staying healthy for all three of those years.

If it wasn't for the MLB contract, I could see them letting him develop, but because of it, they need to move him faster. I think there is a decent chance he becomes a RP.

Wang has a great slider, but doesn't use it.

I like Cahill, but I'm not sold on Gio Gonzalez, he's very inconsistant. He could be great one day and suck the next day. But he does have potential from the left side.

Faustino De Los Santos went out with TJ this year. Henry Rodriguez seems to have lost the strike zone completely, and Brett Anderson isn't really an ace type pitcher, more of a control artist.

Where would a slider go when thrown? Down in the zone. Where does the sinker go when thrown? Down in the zone.

Wang doesn't K people because his pitches are generally in one area of the strike zone unless he's off his game, thus batters can make contact more easily because they are less suprised at the locatation of it.

Wang Ks people when he uses that slider. He was supposr to up his Ks by 30-40 this year if he used it more.

The A's also have Simmons, Mazzaro, and Italiano.

Are we going by stats or potential status?

Everything

You include Simmons?

His scouting report is an 88-92 FB, with a plus changeup, with below average slider and curve. How is he different than say an Aceves who I didn't even include in the list?

I forgot about Italiano, yes, he's good and really good potential.

Mazzaro has a low 90's fastball as well, but atleast he gets movement with it. I don't think he has ace type potential, and he could more likely be moved to the pen even though he's doing good in AA. In the pen, his stuff probably sits in the mid 90's with a really nice breaking ball.

Of those, only Italiano seems to have ace potential, although there are some concerns about his delievery and short arming the ball, but he has some nice stuff.

I still don't think that stacks up to the Yankees.

Cahill, Italiano, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, De Los Santos (injured), Mazzaro

against

Horne, Marquez, Heredia, Vizcaino, McAllister, Betances, Cole. (You can include Brackman if you want as similar to De Los Santos, but my opinion is that he goes to the 'pen)

and

The Yankees blow away people on relief pitching prospects.

Again, I probably would give the Rays an advantage over the Yankees, but I'm not giving the A's an advantage.

I like Cahill and Italiano, and Gonzalez and Rodriguez have potential, I just think the Yankees are deeper in pitching.

I think JD knows the Yankees are deeper, I can only think his stance is that the A's have better pitching not more of it. I won't call him stupid to argue the difference but when your pulling shit out your ass like the O's and Royals then we have a problem. Problem with the Yankees is there better pitchers are just coming back from injuries(Sanchez, Melancon, Garica and Horne) or still have them(Brackman). By end of july when Garcia and Sanchez are back on track and Brackman is that much closer to returning I can't see how you can hold it up.

What's so bad about the O's? Or even the Royals?

Yea, the Yankees easily have the deepest array of pitching prospects in baseball, but how many of them are either relievers or under 20? How many of them are under High A? There's just so much question marks but that comes with when you guys draft and sign for ceiling. And Brackman might be a reliever, and god knows if he's still as dominating as he was in college when he comes back....

But yea I think I'm overrating Royals a bit, but I have no problem with the O's at all

I'll give you tillman, since I liked him when they drafted him and I got just bashed by M's fans for it. I'm sorry I just don't think David Hernandez is an ace. I don't think Penn's 5.11 ERA is sexy. Nor is Leicester's Billion ERA making me hard. Do the O's have a starter in triple-A with an ERA under 5?

What about Brandon Erbe? He's the best pitching prospect the O's have, he has ace potential. He's only 20 and he'll probably be in the O's rotation by 22. They'll probably let him have a full year in AA next year, and then in 2010 start him out in AAA and call him up mid season.

They also have Matsuz.

Matsuz will start in double-A? Your entire thing is about guys in double-a and triple-a or at least that what it was with the Yankees. I didn't see Erbe on the double-a, I might have missed it though.

Erbe's in High A, but he's much more developed than your 18 year old pitchers. And don't forget about Chorye Spoone.....filthy mid 90's sinker and some solid secondary stuff

They also have Beato who has good stuff and I think the Yankees wanted to draft him before

McAllister is 20, not 18. I'll take youth right now though. We just graduated three pitchers and still have some guys we can call up with Horne, Cutch and Marquez. I know we have some guy in double-a, but I can't remember his name. I don't want the Yankees to rush their guys, look how it worker out for the O's. Remember when O's fans were talking about Besdard, Loewan, Cabrera, Penn and Benson or some shit fucker being the best rotation in baseball for years to come? How'd that worked out for them... Its not like Erbe has a track record. He had like a 6.26 ERA in 2007 last year and wasn't good in 2005. He's not doing well in 2008 either, a 4.25 ERA in High-A.

Mets wanted Beato. I'm perfectly happyith Joba over Beato though.