I find it pathetic how much some yankee fans push for CC to go over Beckett just so a Sox player doesn't win an award. I understand Sabathia has a good chance as well as Beckett does of winning it, but I have yet to see one Yankee fan outside of THU to support Beckett.

Not just that, I am disguisted by the fact that some yankee fans thing Bannister should get ROY when it is clearly Pedroia and I am hate how some yankee fans thing Jeter should get the GG this year when others are clearly more deserving. I understand some red sox fans are the same way, but I hate fans in general so much that are homers. When a yankee fan friend of mine came in saying ALCS Yanks-Sox, I told her they'll both be very lucky to win their next upcoming series.

Bannister was the hands down ROY when his ERA was borderline 3.00, but after his September choke fest it's clearly Pedroia's award.

Maybe because Beckett doesn't deserve the Cy Young?

STFU


WTF did Beckett do to you to not deserve the CY Young award?

Lol

Carmona is my pick for Cy Young.

its a tossup between carmona or sabathia. but beckett will get it because he plays for boston so enjoy!

and i thought this thread was about a-rod getting dominated so i will leave now.

Irregardless of who Beckett plays for, the fact of the matter is that he was the only player in all of MLB with 20 wins. If he had played for the Yankees and was the only player with 20 wins, you guys would probably scream @ Red Sox fans for not wanting him to win the CY Young.

The difference between 20 wins and 19 wins (which like 4 guys had) is not that big, especially when a guy like Sabathia beats him in every other category.

nah. if wang got to 20 wins i would still go with cc or carmona because wins is so overrated as a pitcher.

LOL!

Beckett threw a ball at me the other day and bruised my head. He doesn't deserve the Cy.

I love fans that think wins is the be all and end all stat for pitchers.

OMGZ SRYYY!!!!!!!

This year, I love Cy Young voters who think that. ;)

I can't believe you said that, Mr. Stat Head. ;)

I'm with you NateFizzle. Carmona should win it. But he won't. Beckett won 20 games and he plays for the Red Sox = shoo-in.

And I don't want Beckett to win because he threw a rock at my house 2 years ago and broke out a window.

Kind of how Jeter wins the gold glove cause he's on the yanks, right grrl?

Nope. You would say Wang deserves it and the red sox homers would say he'll get it because he plays for the yankees.

Gee, I didn't realize Jeter had won the Gold Glove every year he's been in baseball... :rolleyes:

Josh Beckett is, by any reasonable assessment, among the top half-dozen AL starting pitchers in 2007. Many will say that he's the best; others who favor Sabathia or Carmona or whomever would probably put Beckett in the top ten percent, too.

Derek Jeter is currently the absolute worst defensive shortstop in the American League. It's not that he's second-best or third-best but he gets occasional Gold Gloves, it's that he's freakin' awful, every serious fan knows it, and they still vote him Gold Gloves. Jeter should never have been mentioned on a ballot, let alone acquiring enough votes to win three consecutive awards.

Let's check the stats from those three Gold Glove years, looking at the AL leaders and where Jeter ranked among qualifying shortstops:

2004

Zone Rating: Jose Valentin (Jeter 6 of 11)
Range Factor: Miguel Tejada (Jeter 8 of 11)

2005

Zone Rating: Jhonny Peralta (Jeter 5 of 10)
Range Factor: Julio Lugo (Jeter 2 of 10)

2006

Zone Rating: Juan Uribe (Jeter 7 of 9)
Range Factor: Jhonny Peralta (Jeter 9 of 9)

In his best year, 2005, Derek Jeter was barely in the top third of AL shortstops by both metrics combined. In his worst Gold Glove year, 2006, he was about ten percent from the bottom, but still he won.

For purposes of demonstration, let's apply those stats to qualifying AL pitchers. There are 37 qualifying AL pitchers. Just inside the top third by ERA is Gil Meche; about ten percent from the bottom is Boof Bonser. Derek Jeter winning a Gold Glove in 2005 made as much sense as Gil Meche winning the Cy Young Award this year would make. Derek Jeter winning a Gold Glove in 2006 made as much sense as Boof Bonser's winning the Cy Young for his 8-12, 5.10 ERA season.

I guess that one could say, "Gee, I didn't realize Boof Bonser had won the Cy Young every year he's been in baseball," in some sort of attempt to defend the insane pro-Twins bias of the voters who had named him Cy Young over better pitchers on every team including his own, but anybody could see through such a transparent defense.

Derek Jeter isn't even the best shortstop on the Yankees--that guy plays third base. Trying to defend Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves is a no-win position.

how the fuck are you going to tell me what i would say? wins are so fucking overrated its not even funny (as a pitcher) and if wins was such a big deal what is 1 fucking win gonna do? the difference of 19 and 20 is small and beckett should finish 3rd in the cy young, but he will win it because voters jerk off to 20 wins. it should be either cc or carmona 1 and 2 then maybe beckett 3. wang shouldnt be top 5 by any means...

Gee, you're absolutely right. I'm going to start a letter writing campaign, and get people to sign petitions in front of grocery stores here, maybe we can get that damned Jeter stripped of those Gold Gloves!! I wonder how those online petition things work....this is a travesty, President Bush and the Congress need to be dealing with this rather than that silly Iraq War stuff..... :rolleyes:

If that loser Jeter keeps winning all the Gold Gloves, I'm gonna lace up my ice skates and do some triple lutzes in Hell.....

Thanks. I knew that you'd understand.

:D

Mr. Big Shot, 1 win is important to any pitcher. Say Francis(Rockies ace) only won 16 games, then the Rockies wouldn't even of made the playoffs. ;) Since, he won 17 games; the Rockies are in the playoffs now.

Beckett has come up big against teams such as the Yankees, going 2-0. Against the Indians, he has gone 1-1 while only giving up 3 runs in 17 innings. Beckett wins in critical situations, while Carmona doesn't. 13 of his 19 wins came against teams with recoeds under .500, plus 6 of 8 losses for Carmona came against losing teams.

Not necessarily, the bullpen could have gotten the win.

So basically....

YOU LOSEEEE!!!!

lol

When did he say anything about a petition? Or anything like it? Or stripping him of a gold glove?

I like how Jayhawk comes with straight facts and the Yankee fans always try to beat around the bush with sarcasm.

It's their style.

Say, Mr. Whiteboy... ever hear of a bullpen?

you say all this shit about wins, but whos better the pitcher who gives up 6 ER and gets the win or the pitcher who throws a complete game and allows 1 ER and gets a ND... id take the one who allows 1 ER. dumbass.

Usually when you throw a complete game you get the win... :wacko:

Also YB2 I gave examples on how well Beckett has done against certain teams(such as the indians).

How exactly can you throw a complete game and not get a decision?

you kno how many times its happened that a guy threw a CG and lost...

(jayhawk comes in with the exact amount)

my bad i meant loss.

Well he'd be on a pretty crappy team then.

if u call diamondbacks crappy then yes i guess...

If the game is tied and it goes into extra innings and the manager pulls you in the 10th.

Wins is a bad stat to go by for pitchers, but you can't just compare two random starts either. Beckett would be a poor choice for Cy Young for sure.

That wouldn't really be a complete game would it?

I believe it would, because didn't RJ pitch like a 10 inning game or something?

Anyone can come at you with "straight facts"....especially when they pick-and-choose which "stats" will back up their view. Let's look at some of those other, apparently "irrelevant" statistics Jayshawk chose to ignore:

Errors in 2004:
Jeter 13
Valentin 20
Tejada 24
Lugo 25
Uribe 3 (only played 38 games at SS)
Peralta only played 9 games

Errors in 2005:
Jeter 15
Tejada 22
Peralta 19
Lugo 24
Uribe 16

Errors in 2006:
Jeter 15
Tejada 19
Peralta 16
Lugo 32
Uribe 14

Fielding percentages in 2004:
Jeter .981
Valentin .965
Tejada .971
Lugo .963
Uribe .983 (38 games)

Fielding percentages in 2005:
Jeter .979
Tejada .971
Peralta .970
Lugo .968
Uribe .977

Fielding percentages in 2006:
Jeter .975
Tejada .972
Peralta .977
Uribe .977

How anyone can look at those numbers and conclude that Jeter is the worst shortstop to ever play the game is beyond baffling to me. However, I am sure a committed Yankee-hater will find a way to support their "view".

to put it simply, it's easy to make less errors when you don't make it to as many balls. I don't think he's the worst ever, but how he's ever won a single gold glove is a mystery. Honestly he's one of the worst technical shortstops I've seen at the major league level. He does the flashy plays a lot where he could do the good technical play and it'd work to the same end.