Here are some pics of Kenny Rogers hand.

Either he used pinetar or he needs to use tiolet paper instead of his hand when he wipes his ass after taking a deuce.

Looks like mud and a few blisters.

Looks like some dirt from the pitching mound.

the only clear explanation

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/worldSeries

omgsh people are making this a bigger deal than it is! plus, his first inning was probably his worst inning and thats when he had that stuff on his hand. eckstein, rolen, spiezio, encarnacion, and pujols said they didnt see anything.

You would be too if you weren't a Tigers fan. The Cards potentially had a game stolen from then. You were mad about the umpoires earlier...

I remember he said in a post-game press conferance that it was simply a piece of dirt, and no umpires even mentioned anything to him. I'll believe him.

Let's say it IS pinetar. Now, apparently I don't know the mechanics of baseball as well as the rest of you, but how would a gob of sticky stuff on his hand make him pitch better? If that was the case, pitchers would be rubbing one off in the dugout every inning...

Maybe its just good luck..

Pinetar actually makes the ball move at a higher rate, it makes it spin more effectively. Thus a ball that say would normall break 8 inches (hypothetically), with pine tar the break would be 10 inches. So that would mean that if the ball would appear too high, and then break into the stirke zone more effectively, or it seems like a strike and it will dip down at a steeper downslope. The ball moves around a lot more with pine tar on the pitcher's hand. Had LaRussa actually gone out there in the first inning, and had the umpires inspect it, Rogers would have been ejected and suspended for the rest of the World Series because its like a 10 day suspension under the rule books of MLB. But LaRussa didn't because him and Leyland are very good friends, and he probably went out there in the 2nd just to show that he has doubts while giving Rogers enough time to clean it off, and not embarass the team and Leyland.

Same reason the spit ball is banned too, because the extra moisture makes the ball spin harder. Thats why in cold games, pitchers are allowed to blow on their hands and keep it warm to retain moisture and not have the hand turn dry on them.

I think he cheated personally, and these pictures prove it. It can't be dirt because it didn't rain there, and clearly those pictures show a substance that has a good amount of moisture. Its sad though, because this was a very good story and a good World Series, that is now going to be tainted by this, especially the Tigers run.

Oh, well, you'd think if he was going to cheat he'd make it a bit more subtle than that... but I guess they don't call him The Gambler for nothing...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006...tory?id=2635538

Click on the link, and it shows a pic from the ALCS and World Series. Same spot, same pine tar, different games.

If this is not incrimating evidence, he might as well say its not him because his glve doesn't fit.

EDIT: and in the article, they also say that they spotted it in the Yankees series.

I mean c'om now, you'd have to be an idiot to think that he wasn't cheating after THOSE evidences.

he was taking BP before wan't he? and it was only in the first inning..he may have an excuse

For the ALDS, ALCS, AND THE WORLD SERIES?

I mean, the link I just posted shows his hand in differnt games with the SAME EXACT stuff on his hand. And he didn't have to bat in the ALCS, so that wouldn't be the case either. And this game was played in Comerica, so he didn't have to bat last night either.

It had actually been raining all day in Detroit... get your facts straight please.

the first inning was the cards best inning. and that was with whatever was on his hand. after he took it off he kept getting everyone out.

I don't know about the pinetar, but im thinking maybe some Fyold Landis shit.

are you fucking joking it was one god damn inning the game was not stolen from them, he didnt even pitch good that inning.

Pinetar doesnt just rub right off its sticky in case you dont know, and if anyone has ever got tree sap o nthere hands they know it doesnt wip right off. You would need to wash your hands.

lol sand win2day ddi you not relize the game was almost called because it rained and was raining?

Pinetar would give him a better grip on the ball in cold weather, like last night. Because when it is really cold out, you sort of lose the grip, and the feel of the ball.

ya but he had it on for one inning its not that big a deal, this is another reason i hate fox, they shouldnt have pointed this out we could have seen what happened, fox fucking sucks so bad

Yes he did. I think Tony LaRussa didn't go further with this because he didn't want to embarrass Jimmy Leyland who is a friend of his.

explains why Rogers were doing so good this offseason.. or did he just start using it like... rite before Game2?

Well they way i see it, as pedro gomez said it, its part of the game, and nearly every pitchr whos ever pitched in cold weather used it at least once. Now there is substantial evidance that he used it in the CS and DS too. That is not Dirt, it wouldnt stick there and Im sure he wouldve rubebd it off. Dirt isn yellow either. But I am not mad at him, because like I said, its part of the game, and the players werent even very angry. They were talking in the locker room about it, and there was nearly no hostility. Also, if you look at the picturs Oesh posted, you dont really hold much of the ball in that spot of the hand, so until you can prove that Its farther up in his palm, Its invalid.

i think he forgot to wipe his ass, that dirty bastard.

He would touch the part of his hand that touches the ball on the part of his hand that has the pinetar on it.

The thing that gets me is that Rogers said that no one told him to wash his hand but the umpire supervisor said that they told himt o wash his hand.

I don't think that he cheated. If the man said that it was dirt then let's believe him. I mean yeah, there have been a few lieing people in the past (Raffy), in baseball, but let's just give the man a break. And even if he did use it, it must not have effected him much. Kenny Rogers pitching as Kenny Rogers would beat the Cards 7/10 times anyways. He is a good pitcher, but I do not think he cheated.

You are being a little niave like most homer Tiger fans.

Everyone has an opinion.

Aren't you a Cardinals fan? If so, I expected you to say that.

And I am a true Ranger fan. No Tiger blood in me. I just have my own opinion.

I heard there is a pic of rogers with that "dirt" on his hands during the ALDS. Also before the game the home plate umpire is the same one who called his perfect game, so they said it should eb an interesting game.

and your being too paranoid like most Cardinals Fans.

A pitcher doesnt pitch with his palm and that definely isnt pinetar.

It doesn't even look like pinetar. Have you ever rubbed pinetar off on your hand?

So he just happened to have dirt on the same part of his hand the last 3 games hes pitched?



i think he cheated personally.

maybe its good luck....i heard somewhere that Rogers was throwing 84-86 in the regular season and now all of a sudden he's throwing 88-91

Some coincidences happen, and even if he did use that pinetar, he pitched the worst with it on his hand. Who has the nerve to put pinetar on their hand in the WS! He shut the Cards down plain and simple.

Well yeah, if it is the WS he probably has enough momentum and adrenaline to make his fastball increase 3-4 MPH.

wow..we're still talking about this? i can't wait til game 3.

Like some guy on Around the Horn said, right now it could be anyhing but nothing will make you pitch all those scoreless innings where the substance was located and that is why it shouldnt be talked about as much as it is.

Did it rain on June 20th? Did it rain before the ALDS game. ESPN has VIDEO FOOTAGE (and they showed it on Sportscenter) of atleast 10 games where they saw this on his hand. Its NOT a coinincidence. He cheated, and has been doing it for basically the whole year.


Now, if it rained, and he had dirt on it, for that game, then why didn't he wash it off BEFORE the first inning. The reason why he washed it off is because Detroit got word that Fox was zooming in on his palm and had pics of it. And its dirt, WHICH BY RULE IS NOT ILLEGAL. He can pitch with dirt on his hand, its LEGAL. So why'd he wash it off? BEFORE the umpires even looked at it. He washed it off in between the first and second inning. The umpire looked at his hand, at the start of the second inning, when by then, he had a clean hand.

I'm sorry, but if you choose to ignore the facts and still keep a blind eye, thats not my problem. Am I angry that he beat the Yankees? Yes. But we lost that series, not to Kenny Rogers, but to the Tigers. So I'm not going to say the Yankees would have won that series had he not cheated or whatnot. But, it is unbelievably EVIDENT that he had pinetar on his hand.

And because I don't feel like making another post for this: So all Kenny Rogers believers, explain to me these questions that I have.

1. Why in the first place did he take the dirt off WITHOUT warning if its PERFECTLY legal? Why didn't he wait till an UMPIRE told him to?

2. The moisture question, ok, so if it rained before the WS game, did it rain before the ALDS, ALCS, and other games too? Because the moisture is apparent on the OTHER PICS too.

3. All this happening coincides with someone who came in with the HIGHEST era in post season baseball, pitching 23 consecutive scoreless innings, Coincidence?

4. So of all the games that he pitched this year, he had this same exact spot NUMEROUS times. How? Why?

5. His velocity goes up, which would be perfectly explained by using pinetar. So he was just drinking an extra glass of Ovaltine right?

6. Rogers in his post game interview said that the umpires DIDN'T tell him to wash his hands. His own manager in the post game interview said the umpires DID tell him to wash his hands. Why the disparity? Coverup?

Yeah, please do answer all these.

I know, some of you are Tigers fans, so I don't expect an unbiased answer from you. But please, logically, can someone answer these questions? Please take your binders off, and look at the situation with some aspect of common sense. Thanks.